The Pete Waterman LNWR Gauge One Collection is for sale

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stephenweston
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Re: The Pete Waterman LNWR Gauge One Collection is for sale

Post by stephenweston » Wed Apr 15, 2015 12:16 pm

The link to the interview with PW in the Coventry Evening Telegraph

http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/news/c ... ng-9046735

Mike Williams
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Re: The Pete Waterman LNWR Gauge One Collection is for sale

Post by Mike Williams » Thu Apr 16, 2015 8:42 pm

For what its worth I believe Pete's motives for selling are genuine. I have changed my views on the man after visiting his railway and I think there are two sides to him.

One is the businessman who, having succeeded in a cut throat industry (no - not model railways!) must have something of a ruthless streak. The other is the enthusiast who campaigns tirelessly for railways in all forms and also, incidentally, for children who leave school without being able to read or write, as he did.

I suspect his money is mainly, as with most of us, tied up in every-day things, and his railway activities have to fund themselves - i.e. sell Gauge 1 models which he no longer uses to fund another aspect of his hobby. Many of us do that.

I hope Philip was successful today and we see some lovely models of LNWR locomotives more often.

Mike

Brian Nicholls
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Re: The Pete Waterman LNWR Gauge One Collection is for sale

Post by Brian Nicholls » Fri Apr 17, 2015 12:53 am

Mike,

I took a look on the auction site at around midnight (on the 16th), and most of the model locomotives were sold, though not all.

However, from the sale prices noted against the sold lots, to put it mildly, I think many of us missed some very good bargains.
I know I am kicking myself for not going, and taking the plunge. :cry: :evil:

One of the locos not sold was one I would have been interested in, and I am wondering if it would be worth contacting PW in order to see what price he wants and if he would sell.
The problem is, I do not have any contact details.

Regards,

Brian Nicholls.

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Philip Millard
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Re: The Pete Waterman LNWR Gauge One Collection is for sale

Post by Philip Millard » Fri Apr 17, 2015 7:04 am

The "Tale of the Sale."

I attended the sale in Dover Street, which reeked of opulence, with many expensive-looking girls acting as welcomers, receptionists, handing out leaflets and so on.
I estimate that there were 100-120 people present in person, with internet bidding and five lines set up for telephone bidding. It soon became clear that most of the attendees had not registered as bidders and had no paddle number. They were just observers.

The remarkable thing is that few of the lots achieved even the lower pre-auction estimate, and none reached the upper estimate.

The first lot, a Coal Tank, achieved only £1700, which I found encouraging. Bidding continued muted and I was successful with Lot 11, Jeannie Deans, at £2200. Lot 12, another Teutonic, made only £2000. Things then went wrong, as I most wanted a Dreadnaught. When the bidding on Lot 13 reached £2600 I dropped out, thinking as I had bought the famous Jeannie Deans for only £2200 that I would let the other guy have this one and buy the second Dreadnaught myself more cheaply. But in fact Lot 14 went up to £4000, which I had set as my bidding limit. With hindsight I should have bid £4200 as I would then probably won the lot. As Lot 13 is now shown as unsold (????) I have enquired if a private treaty offer is possible.

Goods engines seemed to do better. I bought Lot 17 (Class E) and Lot 19 (Class C) for £4000 each. I consider them fairly priced, even with the wolfish buyer's premium.

Although the 7in gauge stuff sold for big money, £100K a time, that was still well under the sale estimates.


The following sale prices were achieved. These hammer prices are subject to a buyer's premium of 23% plus VAT, that is 27.6% in all. The designation "unsold" comes from Mallett's website but I was not aware of this, and in fact I understood that all the models were in fact sold at the prices mentioned. There was no mention of a reserve in the auction room and the auctioneer brought down his hammer.

Lot 1. 0-6-2T Coal Tank No.588 £1900 Unsold

Lot 2. 0-6-2T Coal Tank No.205 £2000

Lot 3. 0-6-2T Watford Tank No.2026 £1900 Unsold

Lot 4. 0-6-2T Watford Tank No.1635 £2000

Lot 5. 0-6-0 Coal Engine No.360 £1700 Unsold

Lot 6. 0-6-0 Coal Engine No.3456 £1700 Unsold

Lot 7. 0-6-0 DX Class (S. Div.) No.1651 £2000

Lot 8. 0-6-0 DX Class No.3121 £1700

Lot 9. 0-8-4T No.1189 £1900 Unsold

Lot 10. 0-8-2T No.1582 £1900 Unsold

Lot 11. 2-2-2-0 Teutonic No.1304 Jeanie Deans £2200

Lot 12. 2-2-2-0 Teutonic No. 1309 Adriatic £2000

Lot 13. 2-2-2-0 Dreadnaught No.1309 Greyhound £2600 Unsold

Lot 14. 2-2-2-0 Dreadnaught No.504 Thunderer £4000

Lot 15. 0-8-0 Class D No.1384 £3800 Unsold

Lot 16. 0-8--0 Class A No.1817 £4000

Lot 17. 2-8-0 Class E No.1017 £4000

Lot 18. 0-8-0 Class B No.859 £3300 Unsold

Lot 19. 0-8-0 Class C No.1814 £4000

Lot 20. 0-8-0 Class D No.2548 £3500

Lot 21. 2-8-0 Class F No.1036 £3600 Unsold

Lot 22. 4-6-0 Claughton No.2222 Sir Gilbert Claughton (oil fired) £4000

Lot 23. 4-6-0 Claughton No.1191 Sir Frank Ree £3200 Unsold

Lot 24. 2-4-0 Jumbo No.790 Hardwick £4000


Lot 25 LMS 4-6-0 Fury £10000

Lot 26 BR ex-LMS 2-6-0+0-6-2 Beyer-Garratt £10000

For other lots see the website http://www.dreweatts.com/cms/pages/lots/13830

So, what shall I do with my three beautiful Gauge One engines? I have no room left in my house to dipslay them, so I am offering to give them to the LNWRS to display at Kenilworth. I am pleased to have "saved them for the nation", and I hope they will bring pleasure to others.
Last edited by Philip Millard on Fri Apr 17, 2015 8:22 am, edited 1 time in total.
"A man would do nothing, if he waited until he could do it so well that no one at all would find fault with what he has done." - Cardinal Newman

Jol Wilkinson
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Re: The Pete Waterman LNWR Gauge One Collection is for sale

Post by Jol Wilkinson » Fri Apr 17, 2015 7:19 am

The auction results can be found here;

http://www.dreweatts.com/cms/pages/auct ... s=date%2Cd

Of note is that quite a few of the LNWR locos didn't sell. quite a few went for less than the guide price, while some of the GWR stuff sold for higher prices than the Premier Line items. I don't think the live steamers reached the guide prices, the LMS Duchess going for £10K less if I remember the guide price correctly.

dal-t
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Re: The Pete Waterman LNWR Gauge One Collection is for sale

Post by dal-t » Fri Apr 17, 2015 7:32 am

Half the models on offer (1/10 of his total collection!) sold, over £600K raised ('close to the figure he had in mind'). What does that make the remainder worth? I know, it's always down to what someone is prepared to pay, ...
David Littlewood-Tysoe
Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level then beat you with experience.
Mark Twain

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Philip Millard
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Re: The Pete Waterman LNWR Gauge One Collection is for sale

Post by Philip Millard » Fri Apr 17, 2015 3:03 pm

The auction results are in fact at http://www.dreweatts.com/cms/pages/results/13830

At the moment I cannot get any sense out of the auctioneers regrding the lots they say were unsold. I have offered to make an offer by private treaty for Lot 13. But as I say, I believed that all the lots were sold at the prices I quoted.
"A man would do nothing, if he waited until he could do it so well that no one at all would find fault with what he has done." - Cardinal Newman

Mike Williams
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Re: The Pete Waterman LNWR Gauge One Collection is for sale

Post by Mike Williams » Sat Apr 18, 2015 6:38 am

That sounds about normal for auctioneers Philip! Keep at them. If all else fails try Waterman direct - might not get a result but might at least cause him to question to the auctioneers.

What a wonderful gesture. I hope the committee and membership appreciate it.

At hose prices I suspect dealers swept up the cheaper ones - keep an eye on e-bay over the next few months.

Mike

pstanton
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Re: The Pete Waterman LNWR Gauge One Collection is for sale

Post by pstanton » Sun Apr 19, 2015 4:14 pm

A most generous offer Philip; one that was a subject of much interest at the committee meeting yesterday!

The models sound superb and the Chairman will be getting in touch to talk with you.

Many thanks from me too!


All the best


Peter S.

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Philip Millard
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Re: The Pete Waterman LNWR Gauge One Collection is for sale

Post by Philip Millard » Mon Apr 20, 2015 4:01 pm

I have now purchased the 2-2-2-0 Dreadnaught compound No.2059 Greyhound by private treaty at the reserve price, and will be donating it with the others to the Society. I plan to bring them to Kenilworth for the modelling meeting in July.

I do not understand why the Dreadnaught models were subject to a reserve while the Teutonics were not.

As I say, I am very glad to have saved these superb models for the nation, and hope that they give much pleasure to others over the years to come.
"A man would do nothing, if he waited until he could do it so well that no one at all would find fault with what he has done." - Cardinal Newman

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